Braving the midterms: Your playbook for whatever comes
How do you get through a midterm season this tense with your integrity intact, whatever the results bring? Moni and April Lawson, your politically red and blue co-hosts, bring a survival guide: practical, evidence-backed tips for the anxiety, distrust, and exhaustion so many of us are carrying into this election.
Don’t go it alone, whether in victory, defeat, or uncertainty. Decide who you’ll be the day after the election. Go local, where twice as many Americans say democracy is working. And learn the one question to ask after every political story you read, the one that helps you take your attention back. Whatever this election brings, you have more power than you think.
Guests:
Guest: April Lawson
Credits
Host & Executive Producer: Mónica Guzmán
Senior Producer: Tracy Egbas
Producer: Jessica Jones
Associate Producer & Graphic Designer: Fredo Viola
Contributors: April Lawson & Travis Tripodi
Artist in Residence: Gangstagrass
A production of Reclaim Curiosity
Distribution Partners: KUOW, Braver Angels, and Deseret News
Financial Supporter: M.J. Murdock Charitable Trust
Dispatches from the Divide is a co-production of BYUradio, Disagree Better and Braver Angels. You can find the rest of the episodes of this series here: https://www.byuradio.org/dispatches-from-the-divide/episodes
Links & References
• Kettering Foundation and Gallup: Frustration Rises, Commitment Endures (Democracy for All Project)
Call to Action
Submit a question: If you've been impacted or taken action because of the podcast, let us know. Or if you found yourself mulling over something, turn it into a question and share it with us. You can send us a quick email at abraverway@reclaimcuriosity.com
Subscribe: If you like what you've heard, hit subscribe, and leave us a 5-star review!
Share this episode: reclaimcuriosity.com/post/a-braver-way-episode-32
Follow us: @abraverway on Instagram and YouTube and @moniguzman on Instagram
Join our text line: Text "brave" to 206-926-9955 to join.
Transcript
Please note that this transcript has been lightly edited for readability with the help of AI. Please forgive any slight errors.
[00:00:00]
April Lawson:
I’m gonna vote and I’m gonna, like, you know, see what happens. And I will never give up on this country.
Mónica Guzmán:
Everyone, welcome to A Braver Way. I’m Mónica Guzmán, your guide across the divide. The midterms are upon us, and the amazing April Lawson, politically a red to my blue, will be joining me to offer you nine ways to get through the election season, whatever it brings, with integrity. But before we get into today’s episode, I wanna tell you about something we’ve been building and invite you in.
We just launched a membership for A Braver Way, and here’s why. This show is an independently produced labor of love, and I’ve always been powered by you, the folks who listen in the car, on long walks, who send us notes, I love those, who tell us you tried a braver conversation with your brother or neighbor or coworker, and it actually kinda went somewhere.
That means the world to us. A membership is how we keep this thing going and keep it ours. So what does it take to join A Braver Way as a founding member? $7 a month. That’s about the cost of two coffees, one for you and one for that person you’re working up the courage to talk politics with. It’s a huge show of support for this crazy work we do if you join, and as a thank you, we’ve got some goodies.
Once a month, you can get together online with me and fellow members to talk through what we’re wrestling with out there and build up the skills to take it on, and that starts with a Q&A on Surviving the Holidays on November 17th, coming right up. You’ll get my prep notes for every episode, some of which are handwritten because my brain likes that, and a lot of which have way more questions than there’s ever actually time for.
It’s kinda how I roll. You will get perks from partners I love, like Tangle News and The Flip Side, plus a discount at our brand-new A Braver Way merch store. Oh, yeah. Check it out. It’s really fun. But mostly, becoming a founding member means you’re actually in this with us. You’re behind the scenes. You’re sharing our many misadventures and helping shape whatever comes next.
So if that sounds like your kinda thing, and I’m hoping it might, come join me at reclaimcuriosity.com/membership. That’s reclaimcuriosity.com/membership. I’d be honored to have you, and either way, thanks for being here. Okay. How do we get through the midterm season with integrity? You ready?
Let’s go. Hello, April. How are you? Are you ready to talk midterms?
April:
Hello. I’m so ready. Also, though, I have to warn you straight up that, like, I have the traditional fall sickness. And so if you hear — see, there we go. If you think that you actually, you know, are talking today to a groggy monster, I apologize.
I’m just representing the sick part of our constituency, so —
Mónica:
Yes. And I think that is so responsible of you, as a public servant. Thank you so much for your service.
April:
I live to serve.
Mónica:
That is wonderful. It’s true. We are here today to talk about how we can move through an anxiety-inducing and pretty stressful for America midterm election season. And we’re talking about it before the midterms, obviously, so we don’t know what the heck is gonna happen. Some will taste victory, others will taste defeat. Many of us will probably taste uncertainty, exhaustion. There might even be crisis. We don’t know. We hope not.
But it’s gonna be rough. It tends to be kinda rough. So how do we get through it? How do we get through it with integrity? So we wanna start with where are we? Where are we right now? What is this moment? As April knows, I did some homework. We pulled up some stuff.
April:
Let’s be clear. You did the homework.
Mónica:
I did the homework.
April:
I will share some of the homework, but, like, anyway. One of us is a straight A student. It’s fine. Yes. Moving along.
Mónica:
I’m Hermione Granger. I just pretend I’m not.
April:
It’s cool.
Mónica:
It’s cool. Yes. So let’s talk about where we know we are by, you know, surveys and statistics and what they’re kinda telling us. So the midterms, do you wanna kick us off with that one? How we feel about the midterms.
[00:05:00]
April:
Yeah. So according to Pew, only 55% of Americans are confident that the midterms will be conducted fairly and accurately. That’s it. And that’s down from 61% in the 2024 election, 64% in ’22.
And so this is declining, which — it’s kinda depressing, ’cause it sounds like it was so great before. Although the one, I don’t know if this is a good thing, like, mixed blessing or something, is that this time at least there’s not a partisan gap. So 58% of Democrats and 55% of Republicans, those are the numbers.
And so it’s not great that all of us are less confident, but at least maybe we’re seeing more of the same picture. I don’t know. But yeah, a slight majority are confident the midterms will be conducted fairly and accurately.
Mónica:
Yeah. So I guess we can lean on that for now.
Well, here’s another note, where there is a partisan split: both sides are concerned about different things potentially going wrong with the midterms. Of the Republicans who are worried, they are mostly worried about ballot handling, counting, and election security. Whereas of the Democrats who are worried, they are mostly worried about political pressure on officials to change elections. So given our past experience with recent elections, which is different, I think we can understand why.
April:
Yep. Narrative or not, the different sides —
Mónica:
I think it’s different —
April:
Different, yeah.
Mónica:
They’ve had different concerns. So that’s how we’re coming into the election itself, and our confidence in the system doing what it’s supposed to do. Want to take a snapshot?
April:
One of the things... yeah. To be honest with you, this is the statistic I care the most about.
Even outside of the context of politics and the election, according to Gallup, only 51% of US adults trust the American people as a whole. And so this is just period, across the board, this is the lowest stat they have ever recorded. And it, like, breaks my heart, man. Like, this isn’t just, like, you know, do we think each other’s gonna vote for the right guy?
It’s, this is like, do I trust the people? That one I think is kinda heartbreaking.
Mónica:
Yeah, absolutely. That’s trust in each other. That’s how we feel about our neighbors. That’s the whole intangible thing. And I believe that the trust in each other, in people, is what fuels any trust in institutions or in government.
And all those are pretty low right now.
April:
Yeah. And I think it feeds right into the stuff about our democratic republic, which, yeah, why don’t you take the next one?
Mónica:
Yes. Lots of anxiety about democracy right now, and one of the things that stuck out to me about the midterms is it’s the number two voting issue according to Pew. The future of democracy was named —
April:
That’s really striking.
Mónica:
— America’s number two voting issue. I mean, number one is probably not too surprising. It’s the economy. We know that affordability is a big deal.
April:
The price of eggs.
Mónica:
Yes. Like, the living, the groceries. It’s really getting crazy. I mean, it is, though.
And number three is healthcare. Also crazy. But future of democracy, man. We’re all worried about it. All of us.
April:
That’s interesting. Yeah. Well, and so that’s what the numbers say, and then we have, like, you know, what it actually feels like on the ground. And I’m curious — I think we should just take a second to talk about, like, what you’re seeing, what I’m seeing.
’Cause statistics are one thing, but this thing has a feel, you know? So the first thing I think of is there’s, like, this hush that has fallen over the whole conversation. It’s not just that people don’t wanna talk ’cause they’re afraid they’ll say the wrong thing, but they have all this passion.
There’s a real phenomenon of, like, defeat, demoralized, disaffected. It’s like the whole thing just got sort of squished, like quashed. And it’s sad.
Mónica:
What do you think got squished? What do you think it was that got squished and quashed?
April:
I think it’s hope. And it’s funny, you know? I was thinking about the last time we did this for the last election, and I don’t know about you, but I think the tone is just different. I think people have been pushed so far sort of beyond the pale of what they expected, what they thought was okay, what they thought they would see in their lifetimes, all that stuff, that I think a lot of people just don’t know what to do with it.
And if anything, would just like it to go away, because problem with hope is it’s just gonna disappoint you again, you know?
[00:10:00]
Mónica:
Yeah. If you invest now —
April:
That’s what I’m hearing.
Mónica:
— ugh, it’s just gonna be more burn. I agree with you on all of that. I wanna know if you think there is a partisan split, what the difference is between left and right on this.
April:
Yes. I do think there’s a partisan split. I think that the left is much more sort of straight up suppressed than the right. I also think that on the right, we’ve been worried about democracy for a while, and worried about, like, fairness and just the fundamentals of our society, I think.
And so I don’t think it’s as different, but I don’t think it’s good. You know, that’s one person’s world. How about you? What are you seeing?
Mónica:
Yeah. Well, I was thinking about the kinds of situations people would find themselves in in the midterm season that would get stressful, and obviously there’s a lot that has to do with what the results ultimately end up being.
But there’s things like the people who are really, really engaged and in it, in the politics. And I think there’s a lot of folks who maybe used to be more invested and have really taken steps back. And sometimes that’s frankly for your own sanity.
April:
Totally.
Mónica:
You just need to invest in your life, and this stuff is just a little gunky. The part of me that raises alarm bells around that, because a big part of me likes that and actually is doing that to some degree myself, is the part that was born in Mexico and grew up in Mexico. And I remember, you know, living in America, visiting my family in Mexico, and whenever politics would come up, the thing that I noticed was just, wow, everybody is so seemingly okay with everything being so broken.
April:
Oh, interesting.
Mónica:
It’s so broken there compared to the United States. There’s so much more corruption. And everybody’s just like, “Well...” And you find this way to adapt. And that’s nice, but it’s also kind of terrifying that we’re that adaptable. And I come back to the States and I go, “Ugh, I don’t want us to adapt.” Right?
April:
Wait, so which thing? So are you seeing adaptation and that scares you? Or are you seeing that we’re hypersensitive to things?
Mónica:
I’m afraid it could be adaptation. I see some people taking a step back because it’s a lot and because it’s no fun and because it’s, in some cases, feeling very hopeless.
April:
Yes.
Mónica:
But as a result, I kind of fast-forward that and I go to my experience just seeing a society like Mexico, and I go, “I really hope we’re not moving too much toward we’re all taking a step back, and now there’s bad things happening, but we’re just gonna figure out our own lives and just disconnect.” That’s the fear.
April:
You know, that’s interesting, because one of the things that I feel like is really important for us to do this election is, it’s all about agency. Actually, to be honest with you, over time you have sort of emphasized this over and over and over as one of the most important themes in how we do all of this, is the sensation of agency.
And so my first recommendation for people — and I’m super curious to hear what your recommendations are. Side note for listeners, often we prep this stuff. This time we didn’t, so we don’t... I mean, sorry.
Mónica:
That’s right.
April:
We prepped it. But, like, we don’t know what the other person’s gonna say.
So anyway, maybe you have the same thing. We’ll see. But my first one is actually all about that. It’s find a way to do something with your hands.
Mónica:
Yes.
April:
And the reason is that, man, everything about how our information system is structured, the way that the news comes in, the narratives that are dominant, the way that, gosh, you just can’t change other people, all that stuff, it’s all, it’s like a giant dose of powerlessness. And, like, do something with your hands, you know? Whether that is taking somebody to the polls, helping a neighbor with their groceries, like going out and cleaning up trash. Like, anything, but just, like, do something with your body.
We need big doses of an antidote to that, that make you feel like I actually can achieve something that affects my world. So yeah. Is that what you said? Does it resonate?
Mónica:
Something very close. You’re right that agency is a big theme for me at all times, and the evidence is there for this.
People who are already doing stuff feel a greater sense of purpose. I mean, we’ve known this for a long time. The thing that I had that connects very closely to that is to go local. To go local.
April:
Oh, interesting. Okay.
Mónica:
Having come up in journalism and been in local media and been in national media, national media sucks your attention up to a level where your individual impact is very easily diluted, right? When you’re local, if you just think about the political world, you can show up to the meetings. You can shake the hands of the officials. You can do these things, but it’s deeper than that.
It’s also the fact that in local, there is more trust. There’s even more trust in democracy, which I love.
April:
Is there?
Mónica:
So yes, so this is fun. One-third of US adults say democracy’s performing well in their own city or town, which is double the share who say the same thing about democracy nationally.
[00:15:00]
April:
Okay. Okay. I could work with that.
Mónica:
I think that’s important because, right, if you believe as I do that trust is sort of the seed — it’s the substance underneath everything, right? Then act and be in the place with the greatest trust to build the sense of purpose, the sense of belonging.
There’s also research that talks about that. They did a study, and they tracked how many activities people were doing in their local communities, everything from helping a neighbor, like you said, taking someone to the polls, but it wasn’t specific to the elections. And they said that people who did 11 or more of these activities at least, like, once a year were highly connected adults: eight points more likely to strongly agree that they can shape the country’s future, nearly twice as likely to say they often feel part of something bigger.
Oh, here’s the thing I was looking for: and nearly 20 points more likely to often feel there’s a place for them in America.
April:
That’s powerful. Right? That there’s a place for them.
Mónica:
So it just seems like if you’re feeling lost nationally, find yourself locally, and it doesn’t have to be through politics.
It doesn’t. It’s just being with your community, being a neighbor. It really doesn’t have to be political at all.
April:
Yeah. Moni, though, I’m torn, because on the one hand, I’m inspired by that, and I love that, and, like, I believe in it. I’ve worked on that kind of issue my whole life. I love it. And also there’s a cynical part of me that says, like, yeah, but, like, who has time, right? Like, is it the people who already have the privilege, who don’t have two kids and a job and a mortgage and all of that, or who aren’t, you know, stuck in their homes? I go to church with a lot of people who, like, they’d love to volunteer, but they can’t leave their house.
Mónica:
That’s a great point.
April:
How do we speak to them, I guess, is my question. Like, how do we...
Mónica:
Yeah, to the people who are too busy to add another thing to their lives, is that what you’re saying?
April:
Yeah, or who have some sort of situational limit. You know, I actually — go ahead, if you have an answer. I don’t know.
Mónica:
I don’t know. I’d like to hear your answer.
April:
Okay. Yeah, it just occurred to me that this is a perfect segue to my next thing. I’ll share my next thing, but I think that’s a very real question. ’Cause this is not as easy for some people as it is for others.
Well, my second suggestion for people is talk to young people, interestingly.
Mónica:
Ooh.
April:
And the reason is that I get, you know, asked from time to time, like, “So you work on political polarization. Are you not just depressed all the time? Like, isn’t it super demoralizing,” all of that.
And the answer is no, because — first of all, if you talk to a lot of regular people and ask them questions in the right way, which, you know, you and I go into all the time, questions of curiosity, all that stuff, the people on the ground are great. The people, like, in this country, who are, like, the actual people — like, yes, we have our set of crazies and such as well. But, like, for the most part, people are great. And anyway, I work with generally young people, so teenagers and young adults. And I guess I would say two things about that. The first is that they have not given up.
And so the next time that you feel like there’s no reason to hope, go talk to one of them, because — and, you know, even if they talk to you while they’re in the middle of playing a video game or whatever — you’re gonna hear something that is not simply “why bother,” right? You’re gonna hear something.
And there’s just one other piece of this. They really need people to make them know that their voices are wanted. And so that hush that I told you about, this is the antidote. I was running a debate a couple of days ago, and the primary thing that the students said is, “We’re really glad that the adults in this room wanted to listen to us.”
And so when I think about people who don’t have time to take on another thing, if you’re a parent, like, listen to your kids, right? If you’re a person who is stuck in your house, figure out who is in your life who could be nourished by you listening to them, and know that that is an action. That is a —
[00:20:00]
Mónica:
That is an action, an impact. Yes. That is enough of an action. I recently read this book on perfectionism. Whole other conversation. But they talked about the research that’s been done into change-making. And a lot of us think that in order to really make a change in our lives, well, you don’t really start until you’re starting to take an action.
But research into how change really works shows that the first and second step is you planning, thinking about it. Just thinking. So even just talking with somebody, connecting with somebody in person, in your community, in your life, nourishing something in you — you’re already gonna be mixing up some ideas about the changes you wanna make without even necessarily, like, making a plan about what exactly you’re gonna do. It’s already in there. And so we keep underestimating our actions. We think that it’s not really an action until I’m at City Hall.
No. Anything you do that nourishes your connections, where you are with each other, is democracy. Every single thing you do is an added step. So that’s maybe how I would answer your question, in addition to your brilliant point about young people.
April:
That’s so true. No, I just love them.
Mónica:
Yeah, they’re awesome. You know, older people have been burned. We’ve been burned.
April:
That’s right.
Mónica:
And we don’t always see the cynicism and the darkness that that’s created, and young people add some light, which is great.
April:
They do.
Mónica:
So here’s another one for me: just don’t go it alone. I’ve never seen the studies on this, obviously. Like, boy, I’m all about studies today.
April:
I was gonna say.
Mónica:
I’ve never seen the studies on this, but I know, I can feel it to be true, that increasingly in our society, we’re not learning together.
We’re learning alone. We are reading news alone on our phones. We are reacting alone to what’s going on in our communities. We’re in our own heads because there’s nowhere else to be, right? And I think that that is part of the problem. I think that’s part of the problem, and the beautiful thing is it’s actually not that hard to go the other way.
April:
Is it not? Because I love this point, because that is exactly what I do all the time. Like, I mostly learn things by myself on my phone or from a podcast or whatever, and I don’t like it, but, like, what am I supposed to — listen to podcasts, like, aloud with my friends? Like, what —
Mónica:
We’re gonna have to be... It’s countercultural now. It used to be natural, but now it’s countercultural to bring whatever is mixed up in our heads because of that thing we read or that thing we saw and just make sure that it becomes part of a conversation with someone. I think one of the big questions about election readiness is basically how — and this is a question each of our listeners can ask themselves, and I’m asking myself — how will you navigate this election?
In victory for your side, in defeat, in uncertainty, in crisis, or in exhaustion. Just in all of those different states. And I think the number one answer to all of those is with others. With others. Even if you do spend some time alone, that’s fine. Of course, we’re all gonna spend some time alone, and our media and everything follows us.
But what can you do to sidle up next to somebody and be with them? We’ll be right back after a short break.
Welcome back to our conversation. So I’d really like you to jump in as you hear this, but I’ve got some ideas on each of those.
April:
I will. You can see my skeptical face, so please, yes.
Mónica:
I want that skeptical face —
April:
I want the specifics.
Mónica:
— asking lots of questions. So if your side wins, and you know someone whose side lost and was really invested, check in on them.
Hear them out, especially if you kinda tangoed during the campaign season and things got a little dicey. That’s grace. Don’t be defensive, right? Try not to gloat. But check in on the human. Check in on the human person. So that would be my thing about in victory, right?
How to navigate the election season in defeat: if your side lost and you’re hurt, talk with people. Try not to talk only with AI, if that’s what you’re doing. Talk with people, humans.
April:
Who, me?
Mónica:
Well, everybody. Talk to people who share your grief, but try to talk to them in person or on the phone, rather than satisfying that only on social media. You know, even if it’s one person.
[00:25:00]
April:
That’s a good one.
Mónica:
Yes. Like, try not to just do it through these digital mediated technologies. And have the kinds of conversations that strengthen you all. Everybody wants to share the grief, right? And that’s gonna help.
If there’s uncertainty in what’s going on, ’cause I think a lot of people are afraid of that, don’t look for the truth either in isolation or in the isolation of being surrounded only by people who think like you. I’ve said this before. I said this when you and I did this very thing ahead of the 2024 election.
You know, lots of people were afraid that lots of results were gonna be contested. It didn’t end up being as tough on that front as we all expected.
But I just think that’s so important. Because when you surround yourself with people who share your instincts, they’ll share your blind spots. We’re gonna need to search for this truth together, as painful as it is, if things are uncertain. Check in with people who are seeing different things.
April:
So I wanna jump in, though, because — man, Moni, I wanna believe you. I wanna agree with you. You know that, like, I’m all about the, like, social connection and social trust and, like, all of that stuff.
But when I think about, like, doing this in my actual life and, like, in my family, in my friends’ networks, all of that stuff — here are two experiences that I am predicting. One of them is encountering somebody who, like, the thing they wanna do is tell me that they’ve got it all figured out, and, “See, I was wrong, and they were right.”
Not in a gloating kind of way, but in a, like, “Yeah, well, but, like, if you read this news source... I mean, like, I’ve been following this YouTube channel for this, all blah, blah, blah. And, like, they tell it like it actually is.” And I just, I feel like they’re not gonna hear me at all.
So I’m worried about that experience.
Mónica:
But you’re anticipating something. It’s all anticipation. That’s the worry that keeps you from even jumping in.
April:
Well, because I’ve had that experience with this person, and with a variety of people. So there’s that. And then the other experience I’m worried about is... You know, maybe it’s about being heard in both cases, but one of them is the, like, being lectured at, and the other is the, like, “Oh, no. See, it’s fine,” for these reasons. And, like — losing an election is a really big deal sometimes.
Mónica:
Oh, yeah.
April:
Especially when... I don’t know if it’s always been this way, but it feels like a huge deal these days, and I don’t really wanna expose myself to either the lectures about crazy facts that I don’t think are true, or be around people for whom the things that really worry me don’t seem to bother them at all.
And I’m not meaning to be a downer. I’m just trying to figure out how would I actually apply this. That’s what’s in my way.
Mónica:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, let’s troubleshoot it. When we’re alone, we don’t have to deal with other people who are going to make things so annoying and so frustrating.
And you’re naming people whom you know and you’ve seen patterns that you don’t want repeated. So I’m just troubleshooting here, but who are the other people? Are there other people who don’t have those patterns and that you can go to because there’s more trust?
April:
That’s true. Okay.
Mónica:
And also, the other thing I think about is, might even some of these people who have had these patterns still be eligible for the kind of conversation that begins with, “You know, I wanna talk to you about what happened in the election. I don’t wanna hold back from that. But if I can be honest, I’m afraid I’m gonna feel a little bit steamrolled. You know, my side lost this time. Could I just kinda share how that feels for a minute?”
Is there a way to alert that person that something has happened in your communication that makes it really hard to connect with them today? They may not know.
April:
That’s true.
Mónica:
You know? And if they’re jerks, they’ll just say, “Nah, you’re such a blah, blah, blah.” And then you just don’t talk to them.
April:
Right. Right, right, right. Actually, those are both good suggestions. The idea about, like, what about the other people, ’cause there are lots of other people who, like —
Mónica:
Lots of other people.
April:
— they’re not sort of the person who comes to mind when I’m like, “Ah, a person I know who disagrees with me.” I always think of, like, that one person, you know? But there are lots of them. So that’s true. And I guess the thing I would say is I agree with you, and I love the suggestion, and also I think it’s reasonable to make your choices carefully around timing.
So, like, sometimes I wanna put in the effort to build that relationship and say sometimes I feel steamrolled. And, like, sometimes I don’t. But what I will say is you are totally right that going through this together is just the only way that this is gonna be in any way tolerable or sane.
And there are other people, and honestly, most people react better than you fear they’re going to, or at least they do for me.
[00:30:00]
Mónica:
That’s it. That’s it. And again, I’m sorry that I’m just trying to be an A student with studies. I don’t know why. I don’t know what’s happening to me.
But I’m remembering a study that I saw last year that was so cool and groundbreaking, because it showed that people consistently and chronically underestimate the amount of satisfaction that they’ll receive from a conversation at all.
April:
Really?
Mónica:
Like, in general we think that, you know, talking to somebody on the bus or whatever is gonna suck. Or asking somebody a question is just gonna bother them. It’s a constant anxiety, and it keeps being disproven. And I loved seeing a study that actually showed we all have this problem. So maybe lean a little bit on the faith that you might be surprised.
This person might not behave that way. You might find a way to prime them about, “You know, it’s actually kinda not great when you do that.”
April:
I think that’s really smart. And, like, I watch myself do this. Like, I go up to those, you know, at a coffee shop where they have the option where you can either interact with a screen or with the cashier.
I always choose the screen, and I’m like, “I know this is bad for me, but I choose it anyway,” because of exactly what you just said. So I had one that was kinda similar to yours, but the emphasis is different. It’s basically decide who you’re gonna be on the day after the election.
Mónica:
Ooh, love that.
April:
Rather than, like, anchoring, I do think that everything is so disorienting these days that there’s a lot of value in saying, “Yeah, but I’m still me. I’m still who I’ve always wanted to be, and I can still do that.” And so the idea —
Mónica:
There’s no reason you should change because of an election result. No. You can be who you —
April:
Well, and I think envisioning, like, I wanna be — taking a minute, right? Like, obviously every day we wake up and try to be the right kind of person. But thinking specifically who I wanna be the day after the election. And the idea was to commit to one gracious action.
And it can be to anybody. It can be to somebody on the other side. It can be to somebody who lost. It can be to somebody who is in your life who, like, could use a phone call, or a text, or a, “Hey, I know your dog was sick,” right? Like, whatever. But just, like, I think committing to one gracious action the day after, of any kind, helps us know that whatever craziness may seem, to whatever degree it feels like the sky is falling or that people are betraying us, that I still get to decide who I’m gonna be.
Mónica:
I love that.
April:
So yeah, that’s my version of what you said.
Mónica:
That’s beautiful. That’s beautiful.
April:
Thank you.
Mónica:
My mind just went somewhere a little tough, but I think I’m gonna just go there anyway and see what there is. There was a shooting very recently in an Oregon school. Maybe you heard about this. Children were killed, and one of the public officials was saying basically, “There’ll be time to ask questions, and right now we need to come together as a community in grief and put as much love into the world as we can.”
He said that. Put as much love into the world as we can. That’s where my mind went when you said gracious action. ’Cause there is something about who we are — ’cause you said know who you are the day after the election. I think who we are is beautifully manifest in who we are with others.
So it kinda goes back to that whole thing of with others. You were talking about gracious actions that impact others, right? So it’s just keep linking, right? In those times that you’re afraid, or that there’s been a big wound, a big rupture, a big loss of hope, then prove that wrong by being gracious with someone else.
April:
I love that.
Mónica:
Even in a small way.
April:
I think, though, just to push back a tiny bit, I wanna make sure... Like, you were talking about anchoring in other people, and for a variety of reasons right this minute in my life, the idea of anchoring in other people isn’t that appealing.
The thing that feels good to me right now — like, I wanna say it’s also important to be able to anchor in yourself and say, “I get to decide who I’m gonna be,” and, like, the rest of the world can do whatever it does, you know? So I think both of those are good.
Mónica:
I think that’s right.
You will be delighted to know that one of my tips that we could go to now is fortify yourself. So in that way, we’re very aligned on that. Fortify yourself, especially against fear. I mean, you know, in those stats that we were talking about in the beginning: fear about democracy, fear that our government can’t be trusted, fear of our neighbors, right, being the greatest threat to the country. Fear, fear, fear, fear, fear, fear. There’s something about anchoring within yourself and knowing what your own values are that I think can build a great deal of resilience against fear, and I think you’ve heard me talk about fear a lot on this podcast.
I think about it a lot because it’s such a hijacker of curiosity, and it’s a beautiful savior because it shows us what’s dangerous. The problem is it also shows us what feels dangerous, and then it tells us to stay away from what feels dangerous but may not be.
And that leads us to sometimes lead such scary lives that we become paralyzed or hopeless or despairing, where actually, we have more power and ability in ourselves than we think. We have more resources there than we think.
[00:35:00]
April:
You know, that’s really interesting, because I came up with something very similar. I feel like a lot of our suggestions are, like, similar but different in an important way. And so I also had a take-care-of-yourself kind of thing, but it was more about anchoring in your life.
So protect your rhythms. Plan something non-political that you care about, which really can be as simple as going outside for a walk. Like, it does not have to be complex here. But I feel like I am oriented right now towards, like, anchoring in the body and, like, do something with your hands, protect your rhythms, figure out what your physical day is gonna look like right after the election — and by the way, not just the day after, right? Like, for the weeks after.
And I agree with you about nourishing yourself, but I just think that finding anchors wherever they are — and maybe for some people listening, the anchors are in other people. And for some people it’s the tangible things, and for other people it’s something else. But I do think that anchors are a big deal.
Mónica:
I’m so glad you’re making this point about the importance of — you know, we can reach out to others when it’s right, but fortify yourself. What do you do with your hands that helps you feel nourished? Really, truly. What’s something that adds to your life?
April:
That’s a good question. You know, I love giving advice that I don’t take. Let’s see. I do, though.
Mónica:
Oh, I’ve been there too.
April:
Yeah. I mean, the big obvious one is I’m on a search and rescue team, which I love.
And so tomorrow — tomorrow being Saturday — I will go and do a training where I learn and help the newer people also learn how to set up a rope system, so that if somebody gets stuck while they’re rock climbing, you can go and get them. And it’s really nice because it’s so tangible.
I’m gonna give you one other one, though, which is I take care of my dog. And that sounds so — I don’t know, something. But, like, making that little furball happy — oh man, if I can’t figure out anything else worthwhile in a day, like, at least I made the furball happy, you know?
Mónica:
Yeah, that’s it, and that’s an anchor. June is an anchor.
April:
It is.
Mónica:
She is. For me, it’s cooking. I’ve gotten into cooking, and I used to be such a klutz at it, and then COVID happened, and it was the only thing I could control. And now I’ve got kids, you know, of an age where their friends are coming over all the time.
And I just love making things and providing things, making sure the kitchen is sort of ready, and I love it. My husband joins me on a lot of it, and it just feels so cool to have the kind of community in my own house, and we’ve always got people over, and it just feels rad. I just love it.
April:
I’m jealous. That sounds awesome. I’ve never been good at cooking. Someday I’ll have to make you teach me.
Mónica:
Oh, it took time.
April:
Did it?
Mónica:
Yeah. It took a long time, but here we are, and I can’t believe it, and it feels like progress. And that’s also fun when you’re learning something, when you’re picking up a new skill, because that reminds you that nothing is static, right? Whether it’s the state of our country or the state of your own self, nothing is static. I’m taking an acting class. I don’t know if I’ve told you. It’s so cool.
April:
I love that. Oh, that’s perfect for you, Moni.
Mónica:
It’s so cool. It’s making everything around me feel more alive and dynamic and changeable.
April:
I bet.
Mónica:
And, you know, now that I say that, I feel like that is one of the things we just have to make sure we keep plugged into when we’re feeling hopeless, or we think that everything is just so beyond our power.
Nothing’s beyond our power, right? So be in the places where that’s clear. Taking care of your dog, cooking for your kids. Whatever it happens to be. And when you’re in the places that it’s clear, it’s like you access that fundamental truth.
And then you look up at the level of the country and you’re like, “Oh, well, we could obviously change that. It’s hard. But, like, it’s not impossible.”
[00:40:00]
April:
You know, so I have one more tip, and it’s a lot about that. Although, as usual, you’re a little bit more optimistic and I’m a little bit more like —
Mónica:
It’s my curse.
April:
— well, we can try. It’s great. It’s a wonderful thing. And the last tip I had was just keep engaging, and give yourself credit for that. Because I think that, especially — you mentioned perfectionism — all of us hold ourselves to high standards, higher standards than we can meet sometimes.
I also think, by the way, that, like, some people think they don’t, but really they do, ’cause they’re disappointed in themselves, and that means that they wanted to be better. So anyway, if you keep engaging, you’re winning. Like, you are doing the thing. And so I don’t know that I can quite get myself to a posture of, like, “We can change that. It’ll be hard, but we can do it.”
What I can do is say, “I’m gonna put one foot in front of the other, and I’m not gonna check out.” Like, yeah, maybe I’ll stop reading the news for a week or whatever, but, like, I’m gonna vote, and I’m gonna, like, you know, see what happens, and I will never give up on this country.
And just being able to say, “I’m still in it,” you know? And that is enough for today.
Mónica:
Yes.
April:
So maybe someday I will get to the, like, “And we can change it all.” But for the moment, that’s, I think, where I have to land.
Mónica:
Yes. And it’s lovely, ’cause it goes back to, you know, do things with your hands. It goes back to be where you are, be local. It’s okay. And my last tip is about the media.
April:
Ah. Indeed, that.
Mónica:
Because you can’t not think about it when you think about all this stuff.
April:
I know.
Mónica:
So much, I think, that we’ve been getting to is about where you choose to put your attention, and valuing the things in your life that nourish you, the things in your life where you can feel a sense of purpose, connecting with others, you know, when you can, in person. And the thing that competes with all of that is to go and learn what’s going on in the world through this little screen that just keeps you informed and is never satisfied.
It can always give you more. So how are you going to be in charge of your attention? I think a lot about how most people don’t really choose their news diets. They just consume, and I think the main switch is that. We have to choose our news diet. We have to be intentional, and it’s extremely hard, because everything conspires to get our attention without our say-so.
Everything. So this is not easy. But I think that we have to be good about how we can screen our news media about the election for signs of disempowerment. So there’s a couple of things I wanna say. You know, if the headline doesn’t match the first few paragraphs, that story might be out to hook you.
If the story can’t describe the events that happened without trashing a whole group, that story might be out to enlist you. And if it can’t scare you without also trying to remind you of your agency, trying to empower you, then that’s bound to depress you. So just know that those tend to be the results.
Now, I’ve said this on a prior episode, but it’s okay that we sometimes just want to see the other side go down. That’s just human. It’s a natural impulse. It’s not, you know, maybe the thing we’re most proud of.
April:
Well, and they’re wrong, so...
Mónica:
Yeah. Right. But yeah, they’re wrong. Oh my God, like, we love that.
The thing I think that is so important is to know when you are in that state of mind. Know when you wanna see the other side go down, because then you won’t be such an easy mark for conflict entrepreneurs, for people who wanna profit off of taking you in that mode, and just getting you mad, and getting you to share, and getting you to do whatever.
And getting you to ignore your kids, and ignore your friends, and not cook dinner, and whatever it is. Get you away from your life into this place where fear can just amplify and take over. So I think that is so, so important. And I’ll say one more thing, which is the habit that I would encourage people to do —
April:
I was gonna say, I want a tactic.
Mónica:
Yes. The tactic is, next time you see a piece of political media, when you’re done with it, if you can remember, ask yourself, “What did this give me of value? What did this give me that was of real value?”
And if you can name that thing, you will begin to prime your brain to look for that thing in the next story, and to not look for the thing that didn’t give you value.
April:
Teach yourself.
Mónica:
Exactly. I think it is so important — this actually happened to me the other day — it is so important to know when you have an impulse to go to the media. ’Cause let’s be honest, we’re not all, like, reading it in the morning the way that the paper used to come, and then you’d grab it from the front stoop. With the slippery papers. Does anybody remember that? That was a long time ago.
[00:45:00]
April:
Yeah.
Mónica:
Now what I do is I follow an impulse. I follow an impulse, I go check the New York Times. Follow an impulse, I go check Wall Street Journal. And what I have to do, and am starting to do, is pause and ask, “Why is that impulse coming?”
The other day, April, I wanted to be soothed. I felt insecure. I had seen something in my work that made me feel insecure. And the impulse came: I’m gonna go check the New York Times. And I went, “Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, what?” And I stopped, and I thought about it, and I said, “I wanna be soothed.”
“I’m going to the New York Times to look for headlines so I can be soothed? Well, then, that makes me an easier mark for things that affirm me. That makes me an easier mark for wanting to put others down through the news.”
Hold on. And so then the question is, you know, what is the need that you want met when you have an impulse to go to media?
Be honest with yourself about that. And then ask yourself, “Is there another better way I can meet that need?” So you may remember this, because as a result of that pause, I texted you. I stopped. I made a cup of tea. Do you remember that text I sent you?
April:
Yeah.
Mónica:
And we don’t have to talk about what it said, but that’s why I sent it to you. I didn’t know that was why. I said, “I need to connect to somebody. I need to connect with people. They will soothe me a lot better than whatever I’m looking for in the world’s stories alone.”
April:
I’m really honored that you texted me.
Mónica:
Yeah, I thought of you for that.
April:
Yeah. Thank you. That makes me feel good. By the way, it turns out that if you connect with other people, you make them feel good too. I think that’s really good. I wanna add a tweak on it, though, because as a person who — it’s probably just ’cause I’m sick, but feels, like, tired and lazy right now, and, like, overwhelmed and whatever — I think that, phew, if you have the wherewithal to do that before you check the news, absolutely. Absolutely do it. The other thing that I would suggest, which is the thing I’m doing, is only check it at certain times. Because if I can, like, control the input, the inflow, then I get to choose.
You know how they track your metabolism and your blood sugar and then give you things at the wrong — you know, when you’re weak. If I choose the time, then at least I’m putting a tourniquet on the thing. Sorry, I’m in EMT class. Everything is a tourniquet right now.
But, I mean, goodness gracious. You know, here’s the thing. I wanna commit to this. Sometime between now and November 4th, when the election is over, I’m gonna do what you just said. I’m gonna notice when I’m going to my vices — AI or a news media site — for information, when what I really want is something else.
Probably connection. It’s usually connection.
Mónica:
It’s usually connection.
April:
It is, man. ’Cause people, ugh.
Mónica:
People are so annoying sometimes.
April:
I know.
Mónica:
But not everybody, and not all the time.
April:
But yeah. I’m gonna do that. I like that a lot. Thank you.
Mónica:
That’s really cool. All right.
April:
How about you? You wanna make any commitments?
Mónica:
That’s a great question.
April:
I’m totally putting you on the spot.
Mónica:
Oh, okay. There’s something else I was thinking about with all of this, which is I was reflecting the other day on how I, Mónica Guzmán, actually feels about this election.
And part of what came out is — it’s so weird to say, but I’m so much less interested right now in what the politicians are saying and doing. And I want so much to sort of enrich in my own life and help other people enrich the conversations that nobody sees.
The stuff that happens behind the scenes in their own relationships, at their own kitchen tables. Just how are we treating each other? How are we talking about each other at a time when we’re all making these decisions together? And so I’ve been more selective in my news. I’ve been taking steps back that I’m trying to do for the sake of my own self-direction.
Not to grow numb or disengaged from what’s going on, but to become stronger in who I am. Like you said, who are you? So that when I do engage, it’s with a lot more presence and grounding and all of these things. So I was thinking about what happens when you’ve got two people, you know, and somebody brings up the election, and they’re either just really engaged or really into it, and the other person just hasn’t been checking in as much and doesn’t know quite what to do with that.
And what I would say is, you know what? If you’re feeling exhausted, maybe a bit numb, if you’re tired of all of this —
[00:50:00]
April:
Overwhelmed, meh.
Mónica:
— that’s a political opinion, too. That’s a political opinion, too. I think that’s actually important.
April:
Explain.
Mónica:
I think people who feel like they haven’t been keeping up too much, or, you know, they’re not sure that they care about this issue as much as this person they’re talking to, they think they’re disqualified from the political conversation. You’re not disqualified from the political conversation.
April:
Ooh, I love that.
Mónica:
You’re not. Numbness and exhaustion and all of these things are part of our political climate.
So if that stuff comes up, just own it. Just own it, and say, “You know what, y’all? I can tell this is really important to you all. I’ll be honest, I haven’t caught up with it as much lately, and it’s because everything going on in politics is just sickening me, or it’s making me feel this kind of way.”
You will see there’s a lot of common ground on that.
April:
No question.
Mónica:
A lot of people are feeling that kind of stuff. So don’t disqualify yourself. That is itself a political opinion. Own it. Speak into it. Make sure you engage around that. We should all be talking more about that, too.
Because that helps raise the level of “this is unacceptable” that we all really believe.
April:
So is this what you’re committing to? That you’re gonna own that when that’s —
Mónica:
This is my commitment.
April:
Okay. Okay.
Mónica:
When that happens and somebody talks about an issue that I don’t know a lot about, instead of just kinda being quiet and letting them do all the talking, I will speak into — I will try to tell them, “Well, here’s what I’m focusing on in my life. Like, I really like that you’re focusing on that. That’s great. Here’s what I’m focusing on in my life and why.”
April:
Interesting. Yeah.
Mónica:
Just own it.
April:
I’ll be really curious to hear how that goes.
Mónica:
Well, let’s see if it comes up. For the most part, in most of my conversations, I’m the one that’s more politically engaged than most other people. But every now and then — I mean, you saw me just spit out stats, right?
April:
That’s true. It’s true. It’s true.
Mónica:
I read the news. I report the details.
April:
Yes, yes, yes. We have an unplugged —
Mónica:
But I mostly wanna give that to our listeners. I wanna give that to our listeners. Don’t feel guilty. Don’t feel disqualified.
April:
I agree with that. If it’s all too much — I do think that many of the best people are sensitized to this and get overwhelmed, and then check out.
But those are exactly the people that we want in the game, you know?
Mónica:
Exactly. Exactly.
April:
Which is not to insult my news junkies out there. But anyway, I really appreciate this conversation, and I am looking forward to following up with you and telling you that I, like, did my commitment.
So yeah, thanks for thinking this through with me. I think it’s not gonna be an easy few weeks, but I feel a little bit more solid than I did when I started.
Mónica:
Same. Same. Yeah, and to all our listeners, hopefully we’ve given you some ways to, you know, stand on your own two feet no matter what happens.
And be who you are and who you need to be. All right. Thanks, April, as always.
April:
All right. Thank you, Mónica.
Mónica:
Till next time. Bye.
April:
Take care.
Mónica:
A Braver Way is produced by Reclaim Curiosity and distributed in partnership with Braver Angels, KUOW, and Deseret News. Our theme music is by the fantastic number one Billboard bluegrass charting hip hop band Gangstagrass.
You can subscribe to A Braver Way on YouTube and follow us on your favorite podcast app. Wanna chat? You can join our listener text line by texting the word brave to 206-926-9955, or email us anytime with anything at abraverway@reclaimcuriosity.com. I’m your host and guide across the divide, Mónica Guzmán.
Take heart, everyone. Till next time.
