'That might have been our biggest fight, Mónica!'
I want to tell you a story.
When Trump took office again in 2025, I called my friend Travis Tripodi.
Podcast listeners might know that Travis, a former Braver Angels leader in New Hampshire, has come on the show twice — one in a reckoning over COVID with the then-head of the National Institutes of Health, the other on our post-election “Ask Me Anything” with a couple of liberals and a couple of conservatives.
Travis was one of the conservatives. The one most jazzed about Donald Trump.
I called Travis because things were happening that were scaring me, and I needed to talk to someone who wasn’t scared. What was he seeing that made him so much calmer? But also: How could he possibly not see what was freaking me out?
That first call lasted over an hour, and was followed by another one, and another one, and another one.
After months, something dangerous occurred to us. We were clashing fully, freely, and sometimes emotionally on these calls — all without cutting them short and while gaining upsides that are really hard to describe outside the conversation.
So what if we let people in?
Today, you are invited to check out the first installment of a very different kind of A Braver Way episode. The riskiest one yet, that I have been extremely nervous about airing, for so many reasons.
I meet so many people who think full-throated political disagreements across divides this big are impossible. They’re not. Sometimes we have the capacity. We just don’t have the models. And we desperately need them.
On that, Travis and I agree.
And things don’t have to stay “nice” to stay constructive. The quote up in the subject line? Travis said that about one of the things we clashed on in today’s episode. And he was right.
I texted Travis — who just became a dad, by the way 🥳 — to see how he’s feeling about finally sharing these conversations after months of talking about it, testing out formats, and — gulp — him talking me down at key moments from nixing the whole thing.
“I’m super excited to share what we’ve been working on!” he wrote back. “I hope it can serve as an example of the fruits of leaning into conflict when we have every reason to avoid it.”
Preach.
I have no idea what kind of feedback to expect, but I am dying to hear it.
And I know that for some of you, there’ll be moments in this one that are going to be really tough to listen to.
But if you’re curious… I hope you give it a try.
